Tuesday, July 19, 2011

Why are Borderlines so Sexual?



The Why’s of Sex, Promiscuity, and Borderline Personality Disorder


Why are you so sexual my dear Borderline? That’s a good question isn’t it? One that does not come with a quick answer. This is a first. I’ve found almost no information on why sex seems to be such a prominent feature of Borderline Personality Disorder. What I have found has been only a paragraph or a sentence here or there. So let’s look at what I’ve found, what I feel, and what some of my own theories are.

One of the more obvious theories as to why people with BPD have such reckless sex lives is the fact that they constantly feel emotional emptiness. “Even when they find a stable emotional relationship their fear of abandonment causes them to become paranoid about the stability of their relationship and the validity of the love coming from their partner. A possibility for the reasoning behind sex and borderline personality disorder is that the sufferer of BPD actually tries to self-sabotage their relationship in order to end the relationship before they are actually abandoned by their partner. Another theory as to reckless sex and borderline personality disorder is that the BPD sufferer actually gets an emotional high from bonding with the sexual partner even if only for a short time. They are literally trying to fill in emptiness inside themselves and they try and try to fill that void with sex. After having a sexual affair the person with borderline personality disorder may not have the same amount of guilt as someone with non-BPD. The reason is projection; oftentimes people with borderline personality disorder project their negative behaviors onto others including their partners. This means that someone with borderline personality disorder who is having a reckless sexual affair may have a tendency to build a fake affair that their spouse or loved one is having in their head. They literally make themselves believe that their partner is also cheating and that they are therefore justified in having their reckless sexual affair.”


A previous article I mentioned notes that there may be a number of reasons for the more negative attitudes about sex. “First, many women with BPD are survivors of child abuse, which may contribute to overall negative reactions to adult sexual experiences. Also, women with BPD are more likely to experience a great deal of conflict in their relationships, so they may feel less positive about sex because relationships in general feel less fulfilling.”

Having these negative attitudes doesn’t however, justify why we may still have an attitude directed towards reckless sex. I would take this from a different angle and say that perhaps due to previous abuse there is a subconscious need for approval where it was not given, withheld, or used against us. Overt sexual behavior may be a way of taking back control, exerting control in the present where control was once absent.

Also, knowing that we have the ability to interest and consume someone with our sexuality or ability to seduce them is a form of validation of our own self-worth.

Those are my thoughts currently. I’m sure I’d have more but I’m utterly brain fried from today and yesterday at work. I’ll be sure to post more on this if the thoughts should arise.



So there’s that. To fill an emotional emptiness with a physical, well ::grins:: I don’t have an argument for this. I also believe that when it comes to sex, people with BPD are more likely to be sexually open and adventurous. We can be virtually uninhibited. Or exactly the opposite. I’ve noticed a trend towards the extremes. Either we’re all or nothing. So you may have borderlines like myself that are ALL for sex or those that have severe issues from resultant traumatic experiences and avoid it whenever possible.  

Another theory comes from Thomas R. Lynch, a psychologist at Duke University. He and his colleagues found a clue in the reading of facial expressions. “The researchers asked 20 adults with BPD and 20 mentally healthy people to watch a computer-generated face change from neutral to emotional. They told subjects to stop the changing image the moment they had identified the emotion. On average, the people with BPD correctly recognized both the unpleasant expressions and the happy faces at a much earlier stage than the other participants did. The results suggest that BPD patients are hyperaware of even subtly emotive faces—problematic in people who are intensely reactive to other people’s moods. So, for example, a hint of boredom or annoyance on a person’s face that most people would not notice might produce anger or fears of abandonment in a person with BPD. Conversely, someone with BPD might see a happy expression as a sign of love and react with inappropriate passion, leading to the whirlwind, stormy romances that rock the lives of people with BPD.”

I’ve talked about hypersensitivity before. It’s very easy to read too much into what we see in someone else and I do think this theory has some validity, but I don’t think it’s substantial all on its own. This may be a contributing factor but not the main reason.

I’ve said before that I use sex as a means to be close, but not too close. It’s comforting. It allows that very real, very human connection that makes me feel less hollow and alone, while maintaining my safeguards.  I’ve been so hurt and traumatized due to past abuse and experiences that while some part of me does need this closeness, at the same time I do not trust it. There’s something more personal about letting someone into my mind, than into my body. If I can distract them with my body, they’ll have proven themselves not trustworthy enough to get into my mind, but at the same time, I have someone near. I’ll have validated my own paranoia and satisfied my need to not be alone. How’s that for messed up. When I’m alone I feel empty. Sex is one of those ultimate expressions of being not alone. Having your life literally interwined in the arms and legs of another, it’s an encompassing experience, without being completely consumed. There’s the ability to maintain a distance while holding someone close. Or maybe there’s some overdeveloped primitive instinct that if we find a partner, let them into our lives in such a way, we will develop a bond. And from there maybe a lasting one. The more partners, the greater the likelihood of this happening.
  

103 comments:

  1. My therapist told me that my anxiety disorder inceases my senses. I've never been promiscuous in practice, but I have in want. I am hypersexual as well.

    I think everything inside my head, heart, and well you know are increased.

    Bad explanation i guess

    good post

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    1. I'm the same way. Glad you shared. I'm so in thought but not so much in practice because my anxiety and fear outweighs my impulsive urge.

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  2. After reading your blog I have to wonder if my son does not also display attributes of BPD. He is HIGHLY sexual and if his girlfriend says she is going somewhere out with out him he comes up with the wildest things to think she is doing. Right now he is pushing me cause I won't allow her here every night with him because I feel he is too obsessed with her

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    1. I think you are projecting your fears and jealousies on your son.If he was hyper sexual he wont be as obviously committed to having his GF around. Quite the opposite. Maybe he understands her more than you give him credit for.

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    2. ^strongly disagree with anon.

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  3. all of this makes perfect sense to me, i display pretty much all of the behaviors listed here in my relationship.

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  4. You pretty much nailed it. Your explanation is on point! Good read. Insecurity plays a huge role and is a relationship killer!

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  5. To me I look at it as the features of impulsivity and chronic feelings of emptiness. I think of it as an addiction with the recklessness usually associated. For me, thank God, I went the opposite way...I didn't want anything having to do with a man in a sexual way.

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  6. @ singwingedangel. This could be a symptom of many disorders or none at all. It is actually best to just deal with him as he is rather than put a label on it. If it troubles you, you might want to think about therapy for yourself to learn how to manage yourself with him and understand him. Best wishes to you.

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  7. @Clueless... I like that a lot. Perhaps the medium of choice is not the core issue (sexuality) but the impulsivity and need to fill that empty space and ward of the evils that come with boredom. Hm. This is definitely something for me to think about. Impulsiveness is the primary issue. How that impulsiveness is demonstrated is secondary.

    Sorry I'm a little repeat-o this morning.

    Thank you! You've given me a new perspective to think about.

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  8. If we are talking about personality disorders here then it should be, why are psychopaths so sexual. Aren't they the ones who commit rape?

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  9. Rape isn't about sex, it's about power.

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    1. Word! lol :)

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    2. You might be interested in reading "The Highly Sensitive Person," a book which convinced me that part of our high sex drive iis because we are especially sensitive. This book really helped me to see my sensitivity in a positive light, instead of thinking of it as entirely problematic. I'm curious about sexuality and People with BPD... For me I think it has to do with identity, connection, the realness of bodies verses dissociation (ie, I get to come down to earth for a while), at times it may be misplaced energy, and because I'm so physically sensitive and it just feels amazing. Interesting. Post! Kierra vangelder's new book is going to address sex and BPD. I'm looking forward to reading it!

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  10. I really enjoyed reading this. I have a friend with BPD & i love having insights like this. I will carry on popping by, if you don't mind!

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  11. I'm glad to have you! and happy you enjoyed the read. Come back anytime =)

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  12. This paragraph...this sums up EXACTLY how I feel about my relationships although I will also let them into my heart (the co-dependant part of me) and off we go with the tug of war in this love/hate ordeal. Thank you for putting it into words for me.

    "I’ve been so hurt and traumatized due to past abuse and experiences that while some part of me does need this closeness, at the same time I do not trust it. There’s something more personal about letting someone into my mind, than into my body. If I can distract them with my body, they’ll have proven themselves not trustworthy enough to get into my mind, but at the same time, I have someone near. I’ll have validated my own paranoia and satisfied my need to not be alone. How’s that for messed up."

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  13. Hi my name is Paul I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder in 2005 I just wanted to say that having read some of the blogs and comments on this site I am amazed,uplifted,thankful. I feel truly,truly empowered by the words I have read. I am now involved with the K.U.F. (Knowledge and Understanding Framework) this is an awareness programme and is designed to help hospital staff and front line staff I.e housing officers, probation officers, police officers, prison officers ect... have a better understanding of people who have a diagnoses of personality disorder. I help to deliver this training. A core element of the delivery of the K.U.F. Awareness Programme is the authentic and EQUAL co-facilitation of both professional and user trainers.Anyway the thing is this from what I am reading here can I ask if any of you guys would mind if I used some of your stuff as this is just the kind of thing that we need in helping the professionals better understand us and there for better help us???

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  14. I am on the other side of this i am the non borderline that got caught up with a married borderline and i fell in love, it was not only the sex which is beyond anything i have ever known it was the adoration, and the extreme love, but the sad thing is it did not last, once she knew she had me the cruelty started, i became a demon that was trying to destroy her, that had hurt HER!! But i was so deeply in love, i spent years doing everything she asked, changing my life moving to be near her, cutting off anyone that might make her jealous all the while she was married and treating me in the worst way, but i never blamed her, i blamed myself for every bad thing she did to me, because in my mind i could not understand how someone could love me that much and connect so deeply emotionally and physically and then turn into a monster that hated me for no reason. I believed in my heart i found my soulmate and she would leave him when she was able and love me forever if i could just be perfect like she once saw me as.. I didnt learn until i started researching that she was borderline and all the accusing and extreme mistrust and the affairs and the cruel behavior was not me.
    To this day i still miss her, there is no one to talk to when you lose someone you love and it was an affair, people just say you should have known better, but i truly believed she loved me, it is so hard to let go that whirlwind of adoration, sex and love a borderline puts you through...
    Anyway i know under it all she was a beautiful person, she just never knew it.

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    1. I'm married I'm cheating on the nicest husband I could ask for! I'm all of those things you have described! I need help but fear I cant be helped anymore!
      Often think about suicide as the only way out from my lies! I'm a coward too! I'm
      Going to end it with my husband he deserves so much more need to get the guts to do so!

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    2. my ex was a borderline, my marriage ended a almost a year ago, I was with her for 7 years. She completely distroyed my mental health, I was over 15 kgs over my normal weight, I went deep into Depression after finding her having a threesome in my own house. I was lucky to have the money and time to get a psychiatrist, medication, and a coach to deal with all the havoc my ex created on my life. What I hate about the whole issue is that she never never never accepted what she did, i was completely in love with a monster... the sweet's and more dangerous monster there is...I am still trying to put my life in order...

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  15. I know this is an old post, but I am going to respond anyway. I have borderline personality disorder and to anonymous right above, it is so hard to convince us that you love us because we cannot trust and the fear of being alone and hurt is too risky.I have pushed many wonderful men away because of these reasons. I am also very attractive and a highly sexually charged female. So, that being sad, I have broken a lot of hearts in my 30 years. I try to be in a monogamous relationship so I am not being promiscuous. I find ways to keep my addictions at bay also. keeping myself busy is one of them. Otherwise I would be partying all the time. This is a really difficult illness to understand. I myself, cannot figure me out. That being said good luck dating someone with BPD. But, with the right combination love and God's will it may work out. Good luck,
    Jennifer

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  16. I'm speaking as a NON here, and you might not like what I have to say, but I'm gonna say it anyway. I think you need to hear the other side of the fence. I'm speaking as a male who was involved with an undiagnosed BPD who has reached out to other males that have had similar experiences.

    Borderlines use sex in two ways:

    1) As a 'hook' to form quick attachments.

    2) To medicate their emotional dysregulation.

    Quite often, since a Borderline is generally so poor at maintaining personal relationships, the only thing she has to hook people in and hold on to them is her SEXUALITY. And so . . . that's what she uses. In fact, the woman I was involved with admitted that she used sex her whole life to 'get over.' While I think she was right in that she 'uses' sex, I think her reasoning was off. Borderlines use sex to GLOM ON TO PEOPLE and form quick and dirty attachments, not necessarily to 'get over.' In fact, Borderlines don't really 'get over' in most situations. That's why their personal lives are such a disaster. If they were 'getting over,' they'd have a lot more to show for it. Most untreated Borderline women above, say, the age of 35 lead very lonely lives for a reason. No one wants to be around them anymore.

    Anyway, using sex to hook men is very easy for a Borderline woman to do. Most men go through life dreaming of having a relationship with an attractive woman who loves insane, crazy sex. It's like a holy elxir to us. So the Borderline plays the "I'll be your whore' game, combines it with MIRRORING . . . and there you go. The guy is 'hooked.' Fast forward a few months or years later, and that same guy is living in PURE HELL. (Glad I didn't stick around for that!)

    I also believe, that in the case of my ex BPD, she used sex to self-medicate. As I said, I've spoken to other men, and they confirmed that I'm not alone in this belief. A few times, my ex even ASKED ME to bring her into the bedroom and throw her down and _____ her when she was being 'crazy.' (I did not fulfill her request.)After sex, she would constantly say that she never felt 'so relaxed.' There would be a 360 degree change in her emotional state in the before-and-after. These are ALL clear indicators that this woman was using sex to try, in some way, to regulate her emotional lability.

    As it stands, I don't think that Borderlines necessarily use sex to stave off their abandonment fears. I think that comes later. The sex is combined with mirroring in the beginning to form an attachment. It's the intimacy that RESULTS from the attachment that triggers the abandonment fears. That's when the 'I hate you/don't leave me' games - in their various permutations - really start. BPD is a RELATIONAL DISORDER, and some facsimile of a RELATIONSHIP has to form in order for the true-blue, full on nature of BPD to reveal itself.

    My final comment on this is that when it came to sex, I felt like I wasn't even in the room. It took a while for the feeling to catch on, but when it did I was pretty certain: I REALLY WASN'T IN THE ROOM. I could have been anyone, or even a vibrator. It was an extremely isolating and creepy feeling. I was just being used to achieve some kind of sick purpose. At that point, I didn't really care what that 'purpose' was; I just wanted out. There was some seriously dark stuff going on there, and I didn't want any part of it.

    I've read a lot about what Borderlines think of their own sexuality; and quite frankly, I've never seen such self-delusion. But that doesn't surprise me. The 'false self' that resides within the BPD needs to do whatever it has to do to survive. Usually, that includes a lot of lying.

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    1. Wow, this made me feel pretty bad about myself. I think you make some valid arguments that I personally need to think about. I do however think that some of your assessment may be coming from a place of personal pain and is a little judgmental.

      I’m not sure what ‘get over’ means in this sense. I do think that often I use sex to attach to people quickly in a way that avoids true emotional intimacy.

      I agree especially that I often use sex to medicate my emotions. It may be that it’s a form of escapism that takes us away from the turmoil going on in our minds.

      “It’s the intimacy that RESULTS form the attachment that triggers the abandonment fears” I do agree with this. However, I know I will often use sex as a way to avoid true intimacy for the illusion of intimacy. Real intimacy is scary because it can result in attachment which will trigger abandonment fears.

      I’m sorry that you felt like you were merely a mechanism for your BPD partner at the time. That’s incredibly unfortunate. I promise you this is not how all Borderlines view their sex partners though. I definitely do not. I have a vibrator and it’s not a substitute for the comfort that is derived from actual human contact. I may be Borderline, but I’m also quite picky about who I do become involved with. I won’t just sleep with anyone. You have to be a person that I value in order for me to do this. Who the person is, is what allows me form this attachment. They’re not just a warm body to act upon. When I’m having sex, I’m truly more concerned with what my partner is feeling. I will do everything I can to ensure that they are enjoying themselves fully… because ultimately this will be one more ‘hook’ in the pro column of having them stay with me. I never turn down sex or physical intimacy because I was my partner to be happy with me. Sex is a very complicated feeling state. And yes, it does make me feel good, it does slow down my mind and provide me a way to sort of self medicate my turbulence. But not just anyone will do.

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    2. Anonymous, I agree with you completely! I am 6 weeks out of a 9-month relationship with a woman I strongly believe is a borderline. (I'm not a doctor. But by my count, she meets 8 of the 9 criteria required for a diagnosis as listed in the DSM.)

      As for the sex, it was great! At first. And she was always up for it. Literally, almost each and every single date we had. But I gradually realized it wasn't because she wanted me. She wanted the act of sex, and I think I now understand why. She doesn't drink much, doesn't do drugs—to her credit. She has two young kids. Sex seems to be the way she self-medicates.

      I always felt after the first couple of months that something was... off. We were doing the act, but we weren't really connecting in any other way. I felt like I was just kind of a warm body. We had sex, yeah. Lots of sex. But not much intimacy.

      And I've learned that that is the great irony of borderlines. The thing they crave most is the thing they are not capable of having.

      Haven, I agree my borderline wouldn't sleep with just anyone. That said, once she chooses someone, I don't think it's because of who they are inside. It's more of a "you'll do" thing (for my faux intimacy and self-medicating sessions). I have to agree with anonymous, there was some dark stuff going on there. Kinda creepy.

      Unfortunately, as many other nons, I've had to learn all of this under very painful circumstances. I work at the same company as this woman. She is now sleeping with somebody higher up in the company. He is married with his own family. And I'm fairly certain he's not the only guy she's been sleeping with, though I don't know for sure.

      Nor do I care. I have to focus on myself now.

      —Anonymous 2

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    3. "And I've learned that that is the great irony of borderlines. The thing they crave most is the thing they are not capable of having." This does seem to be the way of it. At least when the Borderline is not being treated. Try to remember that it's not that they just want a warm body, they want you, they are lacking in the ability to connect emotionally. I would never settle for just anyone because I merely needed someone to keep me warm, it has to be someone that means something to me. Unfortunately I can't always maintain an emotional connection, even when I want to =/

      I think there's more to it than just "you'll do". There's also the very normal aspect of relationships that even after you've tried to be with someone, maybe you just don't connect as individuals. Not all relationships are the right relationship. Even normal relationships go through intense openings, then cool down, and people stay together because there is genuine caring, but eventually it breaks off because something isn't connecting, doesn't feel right. This also happens with people with BPD, there's just a whole lot of other stuff going on as well that makes this more confusing.

      I'm sorry you've had to experience so much pain from that relationship. It's unfortunate that things like that have to happen.

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    4. Thanks for that perspective haven... that helps.

      How much of the breakup was BPD and how much of it was just not connecting as individuals? Given the way it went down, I have to go with mostly the BPD.

      We spent a great weekend together before she had to leave for a business trip (which the guy she is now sleeping with was also on). We stayed in contact every day. Spoke on the phone. She sent me text updates and e-mails. I told her I loved her and I missed her. she told me the same. I encouraged her and supported her when she wondered if she was even needed on the trip. She arranged for a co-worker to bring a card to my desk. It said how much she loved me and was missing me. Friday afternoon, I sent her a text. I told her I was thinking of her and that I can't wait to see her. She said the same. She was getting in very early in the morning, and had to pick up her kids at some point later that day, so we had no set plans.

      The next afternoon, she called me, screaming, saying she never wanted to see me again.

      What happened? Hell if I know. The only thing I can figure out is that when she got home, there was an ant infestation at her place. She tried to call me at about 1:30 a.m., but couldn't reach me. She was able to reach her ex-husband. But the fact that I wasn't there, and didn't call her first thing in the morning seemed to have triggered something in her. Abandonment issues? She had admitted to me before that she struggled with those.

      She also threw in some random insults. I'm not assertive enough. All the plans I make are vague. I rely on texts too much.(?) I never say "I love you" (not true). She said that because of my alleged inattentiveness she found herself "seeking attention in other places" and forcefully yelled that that was "not a good sign."

      Anyway, we had gone through mini-breakups before, but this time a switch seemed to have been flipped. I was bad and unworthy, and there was no going back. She refused to meet me or to talk about it at all. I had already been going through a tough week emotionally due to a family issue, which I told her about in an e-mail. Her response was strangely cold and detached. It had all the warmth and compassion of someone who was canceling their cable TV service. This from someone who said she loved me just days before?

      Oh, and she also pinned the failure of the relationship all on me. In so many words, I wasn't "putting enough into it."

      That was about 7 weeks ago now. We haven't spoken since.

      —Anonymous 2

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    5. Oh my. The refusal to accept any responsibility for the failure in the relationship doesn't surprise me at all. It's a sad, but often true, occurance that we don't share blame well. The need to blame you, I believe, stems from a need to validate her own self worth. Of course it wasn't all your fault. But were she to admit she was partially to blame then her own self worth would fail.

      I also understand the freak out from your less than immediate reply. It's not a rational response, obviously, but if she was going through something at the time and felt she really needed your support, her mind was probably spinning out of control over the millions of reasons that you didn't respond. The most rational explanation wouldn't be the least hurtful, which means it wouldn't take so much hold over her mind. We tend to ruminate on the worst of the worst possibilities and those are the ones we believe will happen. She probably didn't set out to hurt you on purpose, but was reacting to an irrational train of thought where she believed she was the victim. I know that doesn't make the hurt any less.

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    6. Well, well... she wrote to me, all these weeks later. Though I'm not sure what to make of it.

      Haven, I'm pasting her message below (names omitted). I'd be interested in any thoughts you have on it.

      Some background: I never once told her, or even hinted, that she was "messed up," that I hated her or despised her or that she was "an evil being." Not once. Did I think those thoughts? Oh, yes. But I'm proud to say I took the high road after the breakup. I told her I was hurt by it, but that I wished her nothing but the best. And I left it at that.

      Also, we work at the same company. It is true I have been avoiding and ignoring her. I had to, for my own healing. That said, if she ever wanted to talk to me or just say hi, she knows where I sit. She knows my company e-mail and my phone number. She never tried to contact me once during all that time.

      Anyway, here's what she wrote:

      "Hi,
      I hope you had a good birthday. Listen, I just wanted to tell you that I don't really understand why you seem to despise me so much. Why you can't even say hello to me or acknowledge my existence? We work together and I know that you may not feel great about me, but I just don't know what I did to deserve being ignored?

      This will probably only give you a reason to blast me and explain how messed up you think I am/why I deserve it, but truthfully, I know I don't. No matter what you say.

      I was nothing but honest with you from the beginning and tried to treat you with kindness up and beyond our breakup. I broke up with you because the relationship was not working for me, not because I didn't care for you. I also did not break up with you for someone else; is that what you think? If it is, it is not true. I have not dated anyone since we broke up.

      Well, I guess the point is, I still care enough to try to make some sort of peace. We were friendly once, and then we had a special relationship, which ended. But it doesn't mean we have to be enemies who never talk again. At least I hope not. Please don't ignore me and pretend I don't exist. Can we at least honor the relationship we had by being adults now? I don't regret the decision I made, and I won't apologize for ending the relationship. You can hate me if you want, but I really wish you might dig deep and remember that my goal in our relationship was to be close to you and have a special connection. I didn't seek you out to hurt you. I tried really hard to make it work with you. I really did. I tried to respect you and be loving. I know you tried to do the same. Still we fell short. And I know that sucks, but it doesn't have to mean that we go around acting like the other is some type of evil being. That's just not true for either of us.

      (her name)

      P.S. Please don't respond in some cold and distant way just to hurt me. If you don't care to speak about this or to me, then just don't respond rather than be hurtful please."

      I've been on vacation the past week, so why is she writing this to me now? Maybe the guy she was screwing called things off and that's why she feels the need to re-engage me, who knows. I also like how she starts right off the bat by basically saying that any reasons I have for ignoring her are wrong. My feelings don't matter, I guess. I wonder if "kindness up and beyond our breakup" included the rage on the phone in which she belittled and insulted me. Kindness beyond? She refused to meet me or even to talk to me. And I like how she said she hasn't "dated" anyone. I believe that, actually. That she hasn't been "dating."

      As Charlie Brown used to say, AAUGH!

      —Anonymous 2

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    7. To the previous poster with the letter: I believe I probably have BP disorder, and your ex sounds like how I used to behave. It's not you, really. My advice: be cordial but don't re-engage with her. Yes she's trying to pull you back toward her after she dumped you. We love drama that involves getting back together. The grass is always greener, ya know...

      I don't know if this works for all people with our problem, but I've found only one simple solution. Whenever I start to have thoughts that are irrational, I tell my brain to shut the eff up. I know that's not very touchy-feely or nice, but it works. I feel myself freaking out because my husband didn't text me back immediately, cue "Shut up brain." I get unhappy for no good reason (really) and want to sleep around/engage in some crazy sexual nonsense, "Shut up brain."

      Hey, whatever works... :-/

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    8. I see my ex bpd gf in every comment in this great enlightening thread. We had the honey moon phase, thn the stage five clinger phase, hatred phase, broken up couldn't tell you how many times, as they say: the nn bpd'rs in relationship get recycled when the bpd becomes lonely, scared, not feeling loved etc..its true to them when ifs really not. We on the other met you because we attract each other, care giver vs someone who can easily seduce and manipulate a men by dressing hot, borderline slutty but sexy, its a no match for the men they choose. Thing is, nothing; unfortunately, means much to them, lack of any remorse, guilt is a non issue. It sux but truth is its all for them. I fond out the hard way with episode after episode of complete and utter recklessness, cheating, lying and for no reason. People say don't get involved with bpd women, I say that if u care about a bpd, they will unintentionally hurt you.I went from flipped over her to cant believe what im hearings about her promiscuous behavior with many men of all races fm others, interracial threesomes, job loss etc.... Their sex drive is unreal! Only thing I miss really and have made multiple mistakes by letting her back into my bed. Thanks for reading, sorry bout typos. . Sad but I need to adapt to loving her from a distance or I will suffer in the end. Comments not intended to offend anyone. And lastly, gf's of bpd suffers should be more in listening mode with their bpd gf rather than using them as a wing women when out partying. Cause as u bpd'rs know, show you a drink and you are mostly down with doing all kinds of reckless acts:)

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  17. I should also say this: I've been in plenty of relationships with so-called 'normal' women who liked sex a great deal; but not ONE of them ever said 'I'm a very sexual person.' They just liked sex. They didn't need to advertise it or promote it. THEREFORE . . . if a woman says 'I'm a very sexual person,' as my ex BPD did in the beginning, I'll consider that a red flag and run like hell.

    I have other red flags:

    1) Insane porn sex right from the beginning; not a good sign. It takes normal people a little while to get comfortable enough to have olympic-style sex. If a woman is full-bore, 'I'll do anything' right from the starting gate, I'll take that as a very high probability of Personality Disorder and be gone like a bat out of hell. And you know what? I won't be missing out on anything. Been there and done that.

    2) Any sign of sado-masochistic tendency; also not a good sign. Lots of BPD's are into 'pain.' Problem is, they want REAL pain, not simulated pain. BAD JU-JU!! I'm not here to help you play out your 'issues.' SEE YA!!

    3) If a woman shows up at my house TWO WEEKS into a relationship with a naughty-nurse outfit on under her coat. Sorry, but again, it takes a while for 'normal' people to get into these things. First month? CRAZY WOMAN.

    4) Even BEFORE A FIRST SEXUAL ENCOUNTER, the woman will say things like "I'm a very sexual person," or "I'm pretty freaky," or something thereabouts. This is a clear sign that a woman is a nut-case. Who says things like that before a relationship even begins?? A NUT-CASE, that's who.

    4) If she's lightning quick or effortless to get into bed. Sorry, but 'normal' women take a little work. I speak from experience.

    None of these things are meant to be moral judgments. They're just observations from years of experience. In my life, and in the lives of my friends, women who've exhibited these kinds of behaviors ALWAYS turned out to be very troubled individuals.

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    1. Hm.

      Meh. I know a lot of healthy, well adjusted women that admit to being sexual people. However, I definitely will out and say that I’m a very sexual person and I do think there’s a subconscious motivator of instilling that fantasy to ‘hook’ someone.

      1. Isn’t part of getting to know what someone likes, experimentation? I don’t have many boundaries, but I do have a few. There are definitely some things I will not do with someone right away, but eventually I am open to most things.
      2. Here I think you are wrong. Very wrong. Most Borderlines are not ‘into pain’. Many of us are masochistic, cutters, burners, self-injurers, but that’s not the same as being into the BDSM sexual pain = pleasure scene. And no, we do not WANT real pain. Real pain is often easier to deal with than the emotional pain that we’re feeling though. It’s a way to regain some control over sensations that are out of our control. It’s a way to remind us that we’re still a part of this world. And yes, occasionally it is a punitive measure because we think we’ve failed in some way. But is this something we WANT? No. I don’t want to be this way. It’s how we cope. That said… a little BDSM, ropes/hand cuffs, toys, can be sexy fun.
      3. I’ve never done this. It actually takes me quite a while to work up my emotional conflict to sleep with a guy (less so with women because they do not feel like so much of a personal violation). It does take time for ‘normal’ people to get into these things. It takes time for me too. Physical intimacy is more comfortable to me than emotional intimacy, but that doesn’t mean I’m throwing myself on the doorstep of the first guy that shows an interest
      4. A relationship begins before the first sexual encounter. That’s not usually the starting point for a woman anyways. You don’t ever talk about sex before you actually have it? How is that healthy? How do you determine boundaries or what is ok and not ok if you don’t discuss it first?
      5. “Normal” women do not always take a little work to get into bed. This is every drunk college girl or woman with any amount of insecurity. Or, maybe, just maybe, you’ve run into a woman that is open about her sexuality and is OK with enjoying sex for what it is without making some big committed deal about it. I actually have a hard time sleeping with men. I’ve been raped. I’ve been abused. It takes time for me to be comfortable with a man in bed. And I am very picky about the ones I do allow this close to me. I do try to remember that the new guy that I am with is not the ones of my past however and try not to hold that against him. Once I feel comfortable letting him into my physical space in that way, sure anything goes. Because sex is fun.

      Honestly it sounds like you have a pretty limited view of what you believe is acceptable for women in bed. The rest of the world doesn’t necessarily think this way.

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  18. To the last two comments. I think that both of you have elements of significant truth. From a psychological point, BPD is an attachment disorder usually accompanied with some type of addiction and/or putting one's self in potentially dangerous. Also, there is a sense of emptiness.

    Someone with BPD has two general ways of dealing with relationships especially if untreated. It is either to completely attach/fusing or to completely push away. They have a difficult time living with the fact that people are not all good and not all bad including themselves. Sex can be an addiction, the brain works in similar ways and some of the same chemicals are increased when experiencing extreme pleasure. It is also risky behavior.

    Addictions fill a sense of emptiness. All addictions are a defense against something that the person, who may or may not know it, does not or is unable to deal with. Risky, behavior and addictions are dangerous ways to manage their complex and overwhelming emotions.

    I hope that this gives a different perspective or explanation. But, the two of you are right on the mark. Even someone with BPD who is receiving treatment can make life hell for the significant other. It is often helpful if you are committed to the relationship to receive therapy yourself. Both for your own support and learning how to deal with such extreme behavior.

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    1. I hope that I didn't step on your toes with my comment. I was addressing the type of person that they were talking about.

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    2. ::smiles:: No not at all. I was planning on commenting on your comment as well, I just needed to take a little break so my head is clearly in your comment and not still mired in the ones previous. I love having other people contribute.

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    3. I see more truth in what you say for me personally.

      Completely attaching/fusing or to completely push away is very accurate from my experience.

      I also think sex can be very much like an addiction. It's a very complicated interaction because it engages every aspect of you.

      "Addictions fill a sense of emptiness. All addictions are a defense against something that the person, who may or may not know it, does not or is unable to deal with. Risky, behavior and addictions are dangerous ways to manage their complex and overwhelming emotions. "

      This strikes me as very familiar. You sum that up very nicely.

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  19. 'Normal' women do in fact take a bit of effort to get into bed. This is a combination of evolutionary and societal factors. Most women do not want to seem 'easy' to potential suitors (men), because that would cheapen their value as mates. Just as a 35 year old man living at home with his parents would cheapen HIS potential mating value. Nature is what it is.

    Nevertheless . . . you have admitted that physical intimacy is more comfortable for you than emotional intimacy. I admire you (honestly) for that. But you must consider, then, how this affects your sexual partners. After the mother-child bonding experience, SEX is the primary way that humans form attachments. The act of sex releases chemicals in the body that 'open' human beings to greater intimacy. This being the case, if you KNOW that emotional intimacy is very difficult for you, you should make sure that your sexual partners do not expect anything from you beyond the act of sex. As the foremost theorist of attachment theory said: 'People who can't handle intimacy should get dogs.' Sex eventually leads to intimacy; it's a fact of NATURE. It doesn't happen in all cases, but in most cases, it does.

    Therefore . . . knowing what you know, you have a RESPONSIBILITY to reflect on your own behavior and how it affects OTHERS. You cannot throw another person's emotional well-being to the winds and simply hope that they don't form an intimate attachment with you via sex. Such reflection necessarily leads to a modification of behavior. Responsibility is NOT understanding what we do to hurt or potentially hurt other people while continuing to do it; it is gaining self knowledge and then putting that knowledge into PRACTICE so that we can STOP DOING THINGS THAT HURT PEOPLE. And one's personal feelings in this process are SECONDARY. The most important element is how our actions affect others. None of us is the end all be all of existence.

    For myself: if I do keep doing things that hurt people - especially with the knowledge that I'm doing it - I WILL feel emotional pain. This pain is a result of the ALIENATION from society that I feel from acting poorly. This is a healthy response. Such pain motivates me to treat others in a more respectul manner so that I can feel better about MYSELF. As has been said: If one wants to build self-esteem, one has to do esteemable things. HOWEVER . . . I do not have BPD, so I am not a prisoner to emotional lability. I do not say this to insult; it's simply a fact. I have the ability to resist my emotional impulses and 'take a step back' and examine my behavior before I act. I don't do it all the time; we all cave in to our impulses here and there; it's part of human nature. But the PWBPD is severely handicapped in this respect.

    I eventually came to see my ex BPD as a 'Prisoner of her emotions.' She was like a slave to whatever emotion she was having. Her reality was LITERALLY defined by whatever emotional current was running through her head at any give moment. She had absolutely ZERO ability to 'step back' and ask herself, 'Gee, maybe what I'm feeling right now isn't representative of reality,' or 'Maybe I'm just upset and not thinking straight.' Again, no insult, but she was like a three year old trapped in a 42 year old body. How could ANY NON out up with that for too long? In fact, anyone who DOES put up with that for a period beyond a few months needs some serious therapy themselves.

    Again . . , this is just a view from the other side of the fence. I haven't come here to be contentious. I can understand how what I've said might be upsetting. Nevertheless, I stand by my personal truth. I should also add that it would be impossible for me NOT to include any of my own feelings in this. But I shouldn't be surprised that BPD's get upset when OTHERS express their 'emotions.'

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    1. ?

      I grant you most ‘normal’ women do take a bit of effort to get into bed due to those reasons. However, we also live in a society where women are not always concerned with looking for a mate, and do in fact, enjoy sex because it is physically gratifying. Also, I am active in the lesbian community and I promise you, it does not take a lot to get some women in bed. You’re just making a very general statement and generalizations like that as a rule, have exceptions.

      I do try to consider how this effects my partners and I’m quite straight forward with the fact that I’m not emotionally comfortable with a lot of things. I also have the unfortunate proclivity of attracting emotionally unavailable and often abusive men, so it’s rarely an issue. I try very hard to take responsibility for myself. I haven’t always known this was the case, but I learn as I grow and incoroporate what I learn about myself into my life when I do realize it.

      I also WANT an emotionally intimate relationship. I’m just afraid of it. It’s hard for me, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to try.

      I don’t understand why you’re lecturing me as if I don’t care about how the people I am with feel. I care more about their well being than I do for my own, much to my own detriment.

      It’s true that a person with BPD is more emotionally liable. That’s the nature of the disorder. I, me, personally, am aware of my actions and have dedicated every single day of my life to understanding my disorder, working on it, and working to treat the people in my life better. That’s the whole point of this blog. You are speaking to me as if the experience you had was one you had with me. I absolutely understand that you have had a bad experience with a Borderline in your life. You have every right to feel the way that you do because I’m sure it was a very painful experience. However, I, am not the one that treated you this way, nor is every other Borderline out there and some of us do act differently.

      I wouldn’t expect any Non to put up with that kind of behavior because it is hurtful. No one deserves to be hurt like that. We hurt too. There’s emotional responsibility on the part of both people in a relationship. A relationship can only happen between two.

      Part of the process of therapy is to learn the skills necessary in order to step back and assess our emotions before reacting. This is something I work very hard at, and have taken to almost an extreme where I don’t outwardly react to people at all, and only take it out on myself in private later. This is also not healthy, but in my eyes it’s better than lashing out at the people around me.

      I appreciate you sharing your experience with me and I value what you have told me because it gives me something to consider. I’m not upset with you. However I will voice my opinions on the things you say here. I don’t believe it fair for you to claim that every Borderline is this way, that I am this way, because you had some that were. This blog is about my experience and how I feel about things and interpret them through my BPD. I’ve never claimed that this is applicable to all Borderlines. I very much expect that it is not. In the same respect, the experience of others is not mine.

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    2. Hey, I'm a non that is divorcing an undiagnosed BPD. As much anger as I feel towards my wife for the damage she has done to others (not just me) and corresponding complete lack of responsibility I gotta say that it sucks you hurt yourself. Rubber bands? DBT recommends something like that.

      Im using DBT on my own after reading it from when her counselor recommended it. It is great for just managing emotional states. I'm a lawyer who deals with dicks all the time so that is useful. For me it was easy to make the distract, sooth and cope steps habitual. Probably about a couple of weeks. I can imagine it gets difficult for someone who has trouble regulating their emotions like yourself.

      The funny thing is that I believe my wife when she said she has never cheated on me even though I don't believe my wife on many topics. She is basically a pathological liar when it comes to her kids (my step kids - shields them from the consequences of their actions) and what she does during the day - basically just stupid immature stuff that has always checked out as innocent the few times I've found objective information.

      I'm pretty convinced she rubbed her internal turmoil on me over the years. If whatever I feel now is in anyway close to what she feels on the inside, I have a lot of sympathy for her. It must be horrible.

      BTW, she did have a very traumatic childhood. The bizarre thing is that she seems compelled to set up the same scenarios at her age of 43. For example, she says she isn't attracted to black guys because she was raped by a black guy at 11 or so. But guess what race the guys she gets rides home from bars or a party when she is drunk? This has been just a handful of times, btw. The guys, a few I met, seemed very nice. Or the chaotic home life that got her molested by a cousin... where questionable character people come and go? Guess how her home structure drifted when I moved out? Chaotic and unstructured compared to my 'bed time is at 10, son' kind of life.

      So, I am sure some readers are thinking I am some kind of chump for believing she didn't hook up with those guys. I might be. But I have yet to see any evidence of it. Plenty of evidence of inappropriate flirting and jealousy inducing behavior - saying I love you to some guy at work in front of me, etc.. But nothing pointing to an affair. But I gotta be objective and consider the possibility... so this where I came. I am still wondering if she did now that I have separated from her and my mind is clearing slowly.

      One final thing is that I have sort of become attuned to when she is lying. I have been able to validate the accuracy of this 'gut feel' over the last few months. Anyone else experience this?

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    3. @Anonymous. Holy crap, dude. That's an amazing post. Nail. On. Head. From a fellow non.

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  20. The mating process is largely unconscious, as is most evolutionary and social programming we have. The 'mating' ritual is ingrained in us on a DNA-level. While it is true that not all men or women are constantly out looking for a 'mate,' sub-consiously, we are still very driven by our evolutionary mating instincts. And btw, Nowhere did I attribute my opinions to ALL Borderlines. Nor did I deny that women enjoy sex. In fact, I believe that overall, women are more sexual than men. I won't bite the feminist hook on that one.

    Hell, at least you ADMIT you have BPD and try to work on it!! My ex fit 7 out of 9 criteria, but because she doesn't deliberately self-harm, she refuses to consider that she might be BPD. Never mind that she was actually diagnosed as such at age 20. Talk about self-delusion. That's why I left. She's 42 years old!! With that kind of self-delusion at THAT age, what hope is there? True, there MIGHT be hope, but life is too short and I'm too old to stick around and roll the dice. I have too many people who care about me and rely on me.

    I don't say this to hurt; I just say it to give an example from the other side of the fence. This is commonly what NON's hear - and there's a reason for it. While we're making our decisions to stay and leave, we're weighing the evidence and looking at things from a 'probability' perspective. At least the less co-dependent among us are. The truly co-dependent will stick around until they're drained dry.

    Another experience: about 2 weeks into our 'relationship,' my ex BPD suggested that we bring another woman in to the mix sexually 'for my birthday.' I was a little shocked. I mean, sure, experimentation and all . . . but TWO WEEKS?? THIS IS NOT NORMAL. 'Normal' people take a little TIME to get to know one another before getting into that kind of stuff. Two weeks is GANGBUSTERS!! 'Normal' people do not show up with a naughty-nurse outfit on under their coats for a second or third sexual encounter. Most people have to EASE IN to this kind of stuff and get to know each other first. This is just REALITY. I will be on the lookout for such behavior in the future, because the risk of such a person being personality-disordered is just too great.

    After getting to know my ex, it became apparent that she had had a lot of sex with women. I asked her if that was something she needed in her life - if it was something she needed to feel sexually fulfilled. I asked this question seriously. She said, 'Not at all, I'm not bisexual or anything.' My response was, 'Well, yes you are, because you have sex with both men and women. No judgement on my part. But it is what it is.' She was aghast. AGAIN, massive self-deception.

    I really think that my ex was whatever she needed to be in the moment. Her sexuality was/is part and parcel of her identity confusion. That's why I turned down the threesome offer. Yeah, it's supposed to be every guy's dream and all; but something felt really 'off,' like she was trying to work out some kind of issue. I sensed some bad ju-ju going on there. Bad enough so that if any other woman gets too kinky too early, I'll be outta there.

    I'll risk being offensive here. There's that saying among men: 'Crazy in the head, crazy in bed.' I realize now what that means. Olympic-style, anything goes, no holds-barred sex right from the starting gate in a relationship is a BAD SIGN. It's far more normal to start out with good sex, and have it DEVELOP into no-holds barred sex as intimacy increases. I've had this confirmed by my own therapist, and by several other professionals I've spoken with in my search for understanding about BPD. Full-on, anything goes sex from the starting gate is probably a sign that someone 'uses' sex for some other purpose. And that purpose is NEVER good.

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    1. Scroll down to #4. It's amusing.

      http://www.cracked.com/article_19373_5-ridiculous-sex-myths-everyone-believes.html

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    2. Part of what I think is my problem with your argument is the concept of "normal". What you think of as 'normal', I think probably doesn't exist. I still think your views on casual sex are outdated.

      Many people can't see how they're way of thinking is disordered. It's how they've always though, acted, and felt. They don't have a non-disordered perspective to compare it to so they can't see that what they do is not healthy. It doesn't surprise me that she wouldn't accept or understand a diagnosis. Many people don't. Unfortunately self-awareness is not something that many people have to a large degree. It's even more difficult when your mind is programmed in a way that sees this as a foreign concept. Healing has to begin with that person as a choice. If a person can not realize that they need help, then you're right, there probably is little hope that they would be able to learn to live in a less destructive manner.

      Two weeks and suggesting a threesome is pretty outrageous. That's even way out there for me. Not that I haven't participated in my own share of those, but it's taken quite some time and comfort to get there.

      "I really think that my ex was whatever she needed to be in the moment. Her sexuality was/is part and parcel of her identity confusion. "

      This I definitely agree with. Borderlines tend to have a very unstable sense of self and identity. We are whoeever we think we need to be at the time.

      See, I've found that people are either open to kinkier experimentation or they're not and prefer your usual set of standard positions but don't deviate from that. If you're the type that doesn't mind kink, then it's not taboo to talk about it. If you're someone that is more comfortable with just plain vanilla sex then yes it would definitely take much more convincing to move outside of that box if they leave it at all.

      The way that you describe your ex it definitely does sound like an unhealthy presentation of sexuality and it definitely does sound like she uses sex for some other purpose. Sex and sexuality is very complicated even for your average person. It follows that it would be even more complicated for someone with a personality disorder.

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    3. @Anonymous. Another cracker. You're my hero, bro!

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  21. It's not about a concept of 'normal' sexuality, per se, it's about TIME FRAME and intensity. Apart from that, I do think that society's 'whatever floats your boat' attitude about sexuality makes it far more difficult to talk about this stuff within any common frame of reference. The concept of 'deviant' gets pushed further and further to the edge. I'm far from plain vanilla when it comes to sex myself, for example, but I do think that habitual S&M practice is deviant behavior and is indicative of emotional illness. That's just an example, of course, but I absolutely do not hold to a relativist view of sexuality - or anything else for that matter. Everything human action has a moral component.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that when I read what BPD's have to say about sexuality, it seems very two-dimensional. They say they enjoy sex, they're very sexual, into experimentation and all that, but it's just so . . . SURFACE. I feel like there's nothing beneath the veneer of physical enjoyment. Perhaps I'm wrong, but . . .

    From my own experience, the novelty of the Porn-Sex wore off after about two months. It was great and all, but there IS a whole other life beyond sex. My ex was pretty lousy at this 'whole other life' aspect. After a while, the Porn-Sex just wasn't enough to keep me around. And after a while, I knew that she was using it to TRY AND KEEP ME AROUND. That's MANIPULATION. And it is a filthy debasement of the human condition. I forego any psychological rationalization on this matter. It's WRONG. And the more she tried to do it . . . the more I thought she was just a whore. Sorry to use such an offensive word, but some words just fit, you know?

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    1. Damn this last paragraph is hard to read. But my friend set me up from the start. I wish he would have told me that he could never have respect for a fellow slut, just because I was of the feminine variety. We met while having a mmf threesome. He and I hit it off, mutual interests and physical proximity. We kept seeing each other, sometimes four or five times a week. Then he left me for a "normal" woman who didnt want to have sex. And he loved her more. I think some men cannot love the woman they fuck and cannot fuck the woman they love. Its their way of maintaining distance without too much intimacy. After all, if you have amazing sex and allow yourself to care about the person and not just objectify them, then you might have a happy life. That would be bad, right?

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    2. Because it does seem they objectify these "normal" women. They project unreasonable expectations of innocence and purity and I hate to tell ya, unless your "normal" woman is sixteen, shes not pure or innocent and she has baggage too. They sexually objectify the whores and emotionally objectify the madonnas/mothers.

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  22. While I am bitching about these hypocritical men... my friend told me one time one of the reasons we wouldnt "work" as a couple (but he was happy to keep fucking me four times a week) was because when we went to the movies, he couldnt keep his hands off me (kung fu panda two not an erotic movie either lol) like it was some sort of moral failing on my part! Because HE couldnt keep HIS hands off of me! Being too sexy is a sin, apparently.

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    1. LOL! It's intimidation. I think men have this f'd up viewpoint where they need to be better than the woman or more in control. It's intimidating to a man that a woman can have so much power over him. So, instead of admitting he's weak. He projects? And just calls the woman a whore. Ego inflation.

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  23. I thought about this a lot myself. I wouldn't consider myself promiscuous. And I have not ever been unfaithful. (But I know that's not the NORM of BPD.) I believe my own reasons for keeping it monogamous is because of empathy for others - excessive, unhealthy empathy, fear of abandonment, and urgent need to avoid Shame (if I cheat, I am bad, and I deserve to be abandoned or punished for my wrongdoing. - just a personal feeling, not meant to insult anyone I promise - I do not judge others, it's a reflection of myself, not a judgment about anyone else)

    BUT, you don't have to be sleeping with many people in order to be "very sexual". I do not set guidelines for sex. There is not a whole lot of criteria that needs to be met before I will engage (of course physical attraction is needed, and some small hint of a connection, or some sign of good character in the partner).
    In fact, I seek to seduce.
    This is another aspect of my need for people-pleasing, which is a result of my internalized Shame, I'm finding out. If I make you happy through sex, even if it's just physical, then you approve of me, even like me or value me. You value that I can give you pleasure. That makes me feel like I have something good to offer you and gives me some kind of worth.
    (I do realize how this sounds to NONs, but I'm not trying to care so much anymore. It needs to be said. And I will own it and not create further shame about myself because of this.)
    Worth, value, approval, praise...these are all things that I have longed for my entire life and have always been out of my reach and that I have despaired over.
    So, when I feel a sense of worth, even a sense that I am likeable/lovable...that is like casting a piece of bread to a starving prisoner, do you see what I mean?
    It is a joyful experience, and it is a relief. And the sense of confidence that comes from this is bewitching. What's this confidence feeling? I'm not used to this...it feels gooood. I want more!
    This is further played out by the fact that I like to do the seducing and the pleasing in sexual moments. And, on the other hand, when my partner seduces me or pleases me, I often feel awkward. It causes some anxiety. I worry about how I look to them, how I sound to them, if something I do will turn them off. So, when I'm doing the seducing/pleasing, it puts me in control and they are distracted enough not to notice my flaws.

    (I imagine echos of NONs in my head right now spouting that I have no self-respect. And I use sex to get attention and affection. And it's a negative thing. Further attempting to shame me...practicing the art of contempt.)

    But honestly, the sense of power and excitement and joy that comes from this feeling on sex is way too intoxicating for me to try and change it.

    Of course, think of the hormones released during sex. What plays a role? Adrenaline (aren't BPs adrenaline junkies anyway? lol), Serotonin? Norepinephrine? but most importantly...OXYTOCIN is released during orgasm and it's responsible for creating bonds between people (which BPs long for). That may be a big factor, no?

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    1. You sound a lot like my wife that I am divorcing. She says, and I believe, that she has never been unfaithful. But, she sure as hell loved to flirt. Inappropriately too - coworkers, 15 year old friends of her son, etc.

      The thing is that she didn't see how she was being flirtatious. She would always claim she didn't do anything and the guy was doing everything. It was kind of true. But what else do you call it when a 15 year old boy is standing about 6 inches from her, she is leaning back staring him straight in the face while he tells her how hot she is and neither one believe that I'm around?

      My wife and I are still having sex even though I moved out. It gets bizarre sometimes. She'll call me names and say I'm just using her for sex at 9 pm and at 11 she is texting me to come over to 'fuck' and calling me because I am asleep accusing me of ignoring her. I love the sex. But man, I can't be emotionally involved with her anymore.

      The impression I have on why she doesn't cheat is that she set up very clear rules in her head that go like this: cheating is HORRIBLE, drugs will make you lose you kids (I think she is emotionally dependent on them somehow), but everything else is fair game. Basically, as long as she conforms to those two rules, she is 'not horrible.'

      I think there are a few other hard and fast rules like not driving over speed limit and not cursing. Things like that.

      The topics that motivate her to lie seem to be oriented towards avoidance of emotional responsibility - being 2 face to those she is emotionally vulnerable to and denying the less than admirable characteristics of her kids.

      The other weird thing is that she taught her kids how to lie. I mean, she would tell them to lie to me. She also made it plaint to them that she was concealing information from me on some things. To this day, she has only admitted ONCE that she did stuff like that.

      Anyways, good luck.

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  24. I've never been officially diagnosed with BPD, but many of my doctors and Councilors have said I probably am. Anyway I have sex quite a lot most of the time I find it painful and unpleasant (I'm scared of hans and i hate being touched especially on the face, hair and body - my make up is always perfect and not for anyone to touch) and I always feel shame after (especially if they do touch my face)...is that normal..?
    I only enjoy sex with my ex boyfriend I'd screw him all the time and if we couldn't I'd feel like I was pushing him away like he was going to go away...is that common too?
    by the way if that doesn't make any sense I'm sorry I'm dyslexic so yeah...sorry.

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    1. Hm. It sounds like you have control issues or maybe body image issues if you feel a need to always have a perfect appearance, or control situations so your appearance can not be effected. Who am I to say what is normal? However having a sex a lot but also not liking to be touched seems in a drastic contradiction to one another.

      I think it's natural to feel comfortable having sex with only certain people because those are usually people you've been able to form a more complete connection with. I often feel like I'm pushing my guy away or like he would go away if we can't have sex often enough. I'm pretty sure this is not normal thinking, definitely the BPD taking hold. It's definitely common with Borderlines though.

      It made perfect sense to me =)

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  25. Hi Haven,

    I enjoyed reading your blog and responses to the various posts. Here's a question for you. My best friend was recently diagnosed with BPD, which we kind of knew for awhile because of her behavior. She goes from 0 to 60 in a split second and will basically switch back and forth between being super almost overly nice to me (I feel like I'm the best friend anyone could hope for) to completely devaluing me and screaming at me in anger that I'm nothing to her in her life. She's now in therapy for the BPD which has helped a great deal and she's becoming more self aware of these behaviors. However, one thing that I have always noticed, which she even admitted to me recently, is that she has a very difficult time apologizing to me after these outbursts. She says she recognizes they are wrong, will feel terrible about them, but just can not get herself to apologize. Is this common to BPDs and something that you have wrestled with as well?

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    1. As a person who was diagnosed with BPD many years ago and has since recovered I would like to give my take on the apology issue. What you are describing is very normal for BPD. You see, even most “normal” people have an extremely difficult time with formally saying the words “I’m sorry. What I did was wrong” because coming right out and admitting wrongdoing makes a person keenly aware that they are not perfect. This causes a narcissistic injury to their ego and produces a strong feeling of shame. However, an emotionally healthy person can usually get over this shameful feeling very quickly because they have a balanced set of feelings about themselves. They, in all likelihood, internalized enough of a positive sense of self early in their life to realize that just because they made a mistake does not mean that they are a bad person, worthless person, etc. However, a person with BPD will have a very difficult time trying to simultaneously feel both good and bad about themselves. They will split their own sense of self in the same way they split others. They might know on a cognitive level that they can be both good and bad at the same time, but emotionally may not be able to tolerate ambivalent feelings about themselves. They may panic and feel like “If I outright admit to them that I was wrong, then they will know I am a horrible person, and when they realize that I am horrible, they will abandon me” In my view, the reason for this way of being is that a person with BPD typically grew up in an environment where they did not develop a balanced view of themselves. If they came from abuse or neglect they likely received about 90 percent negative sense of self and maybe only 10 percent positive, whereas the average “normal” person might have received 70 percent positive and 30 percent negative. As a result, the person with BPD never had the opportunity to internalize enough positive feelings about themselves to provide a healthy foundation of self-esteem which could serve to offset future negative feelings about themselves. So what is left inside a person with BPD is an inner core filled with massive, abnormally high amounts of shame and “brokenness”, and almost no positive sense of self to use as a weapon to counteract those feelings if they start to come up. To bring it back around to your question, that is why she can’t bear to apologize. She is afraid if she lets herself feel the shame of admitting imperfection, she will be overwhelmed with negative feelings about herself. She won’t have the inner antidote of self esteem to use to counteract it, see that she can still be “good” and loved even if she makes mistakes, and get over it the way most “normal” people do. This will then trigger her abandonment fears because once she feels the sense of being “bad” for admitting a wrongdoing, she will automatically assume you will now realize how bad a person she is and leave her. Thus, the purpose of avoiding an outright apology is a defense mechanism designed to both guard her against being overwhelmed by negative, shameful feelings about herself, and is also to guard against you leaving because you “realized the truth” that she really is as bad a person as she feels she is in that moment of admitting wrongdoing.

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  26. Wow thank you for your candid and informative reply! It makes a lot of sense :). Do you think there is anything I should say or a way to act towards her when these situations arise? I guess its tough bc I want my feelings validated by my best friend but that may just not be possible due to her disorder. I really am okay with the no appologies, I don't want to cause her more angst and I know she doesn't mean it. Should I just ignore the issues?

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    1. I would be hesitant to simply ignore any situation.

      You should be able to validate her feeling and yours. Acknowledge what is happening and that she is feeling the way that she feels. And that it's ok for her to feel that way, but also gently explain that when certain things happen you also feel how you feel. Both feelings are valid, and once you acknowledge that maybe you can work on it.

      Don't be accusatory, that will create feelings of shame, but you should be able to acknowledge the situation.

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  27. Dear Haven

    My partner read your blog this past week and jhe was shocked at how much his behaviors and feeing coincide with yours. I notice a shift in his behavior and I can only describe the shift as feeling as though I am being shut our of his life.

    So often I feel as though he doesn't love me and I can hardly stand the pain. He has been diagnosed with BPD and I suffer with severe abandonment issues. lol What a joke!! Sounds like a recipe for disaster !!

    We've lived together for a few years and we've know each other for 10 years. I am in so much pain living with someone with whom I really don't feel loves me and yet I love him and am having difficulty giving up on what I thougt we had.

    We separately went through extensive psychotherapy and our relationship did improve emensly. He was off work for a few years during the time that he was going through therapy (on LTD). I have taken on full responsibility for the bills throughout that time and he did what he liked with his mone. I didn't have the luxury of taking time off work however I went to the evening program and worked which means I put in 15 hour day for 4 months. I was desperate to start feeling better! I was in unbearable pain living under the conditions that we were living.

    He has returned to work and of course there is another shift for both of us. He had cheated on me in the past which triggers my abandonment issues. That is where I live I guess! I live in the utter terror that he will leave me or cheat on me again. Umm sounds like we are a recipe for disaster doesn't it.

    I am trying to wrap my mind around the fact that we think differently. As I learn more about BPD I am begining to understand that BPD doesn't allow the individual to expereince true intimacy. That there is a continual push pull going on in the relationship. I believe that is what I feel and because of my own issues I feel absolutly terrified.

    Since he read your blog he denies that he would be promiscuous as it appears is common with BPD individuals. However he did admit that he does experience times where he doesn't have feelings for me however he knows that he does love me. Wow !! This wssn't what I signed up for and yet my attachement to him keeps me tied to him.


    I truly feel unloved and taken for granted. I could forgo the apology however I have difficulty accepting being acused of being the problem in every situation. I dónt have a problem apologizing for my part in any situaton however I am no longer apologizing when I am not to blame.

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    1. It sounds as though there might be a good deal of co-dependence going on there. You seem to be very perceptive about the emotional waves that interplaying between the two of you. Have you considered doing therapy together?

      A lot of people with BPD are promiscuous. I’m only promiscuous if I’m single. If I’m in a monogamous relationship I’m only with that person and I never cheat, so there is that.

      I’m glad you are no longer apologizing for everything. It’s important for him to take responsibility for himself. How do you two communicate? Is it calm and thought out or is it often angry and lashing out? It might help him take more responsibility for himself if you learn to approach problems from a more constructive angle that provides an environment where he won’t feel like he’s being rejected.

      I can absolutely understand how you would feel unloved and taken for granted. It's okay to feel the way you do, and I'm glad you seem to understand that this may be a result of how you think, but also due to how he behaves. For me, just because I go through periods where I don’t love or care about someone, it’s not at all about them. It’s about me, and something I’m going through. When I get so stressed out, it’s a chemical defense mechanism in my brain that shuts down my entire ability to care for people, not just you! That doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you or care for you in those times, it just that there’s so much trauma taking place in his own mind that his body can’t deal with it all and shuts down to protect itself. It’s not about you and it’s not meant to hurt you. It’s different than looking at someone and saying, Meh I just don’t care about you today because I don’t want to. It’s not that he doesn’t want to, he chemically can’t. Very different. At least that’s how it is for me. I don’t know if that helps. Have you read what I’ve written about empathy? I did a whole series on it.

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  28. Thank You. I am currenty going through a miserable time in my marriage. It's a platonic marriage, no sex (death to me who is Borderline) for some reason my husband wants nothing to do with intimacy, yet swears he loves me and there is no one else. I am crazy with lonlieness and jealousy. We are currently breaking up, he can no longer take the paranoia, and I can no longer take the feeling that he must be cheating on me or even if he isn't a sexless, passionless marriage. We have kids so I am devestated. This has really helped me not feel so all alone. When I searched google for how to deal with break ups as a borderline, all I got was how to deal with the crazy borderline your trying to break up with nothing for us the borderline. again thank you. I don't feel so slutty after all.

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    1. What bothers me about all the "How to handle break ups with a Borderline" bullshit is no one wants to take responsibility for themselves. They only want to blame the other person. If the other person happens to have BPD it makes us an easy scapegoat.

      However relationships don't work like that. Even if one partner has BPD it doesn't mean the non-BPD partner doesn't have responsibility as well. And simply put, sometimes no matter how much you love someone, that doesn't mean a relationship is going to work. It doesn't mean you're right for each other. If you can't provide what your partner needs then that's a problem. Intimacy is important for most people, Borderline and Non alike. To have something you need missing from your relationship is an actual true to relationships problem. That you have BPD makes it an even more intense loss for you, but it's something that would be a problem for many even without BPD thrown into the mix.

      Sometimes relationships just don't work out because people aren't always right for each other in the end.

      It must be so hard for you, especially having children and loving feelings for your partner. But if he knows what your concerns are, and still won't work with you to provide what you need, which would in turn provide him what he needs ( a lessening in your paranoia), then there is little you can do. I wish you the best in finding what you need.

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  29. This really helped me to make sense of my behaviour. I knew why I'm promiscuous and such but could never verbalise it properly. Thank you.

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  30. Jesus...finding this blog is like that big, first breath of fresh air after diving into the water and swimming too deep - not being sure you could make it all the way back up.
    I'm a non in a 3 year relationship with a very high functioning BPD.
    She is actually a therapist herself.
    Many of the classic traits, and a few unique ones.
    So much I want to share (and will).
    But simply wanted to first thank you for this platform.
    It is so very helpful to read these stories and RELATE.
    My life has been turned upside down - lost friends & family over her, isolated, insecure, and doubting my sanity (catching her lies constantly).
    Been seeing my own therapist for many months. Some progress, but so very hard.
    Which begs a question...what is it in the "Non's" life that the borderline is often filling or providing that was void or missing?
    My understanding is that borderlines typically pair with narcissists, or supermen/caretakers preferentially. As most "normal", adjusted people will not tolerate BPD behavior long at all. As I seek to better understand myself, as a way to have empathy and continued love for my borderline.
    She is my crack...I am addicted.
    Thanks again for all of you being out there, and open to this blog.
    FT

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    1. Hello and welcome =) I look forward to hearing all you have to share.

      I'm not sure that Borderlines /typically/ pair with narcissists (though I know I have in my Evil-Ex) but it certainly happens. Thinking about this, I think what usually happens, is we pair with someone that embodies something that we admire, but are missing ourselves. Narcs tend to have a LOT of /apparent/ self-esteem, self-confidence, they're the most important person in the world (so they think) so if we can be loved by the most important person in the world that must mean something for our own self-worth.

      I definitely know of some Borderlines that are classically co-dependent and need that caretaker, but in myself and in many others we often take on that role ourselves. If we can provide this care (to an almost extreme extent) we'll make ourselves irreplaceable, and un-abandon-able... unfortunately the pressure, the self-expectation, the emotional volatility throws a lot of other unpredictable variables into that equation.


      For the Non, what we fill, well, there's also a person there beyond the personality disorder. Often we bring a passion and intensity, a depth of emotional perception, b/c we are so emotional. One of the things I love and hate about this disorder is that (unless I'm dissociated) there's no doubt we're alive. For good, or for ill, we're a force riding the world.

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  31. Haven,
    Your comments are so spot on...lucid.
    When not dissociated, my borderline is the embodiment of everything I have ever wanted in a mate. I WANT to have children with her...ugh.
    But she goes "off the reservation" on my weekly...looking for attention from other men, "blaming me for our problems of 3 years together, criticizing my behavior without regard to how her actions trigger "my behavior". There is no getting her to be accountable for her actions...she just won't face it. It must be miserable...to live in that constant conflict - knowing, yet denying what you are doing is wrong/damaging to others.
    I just want to help/save/fix her...I am the embodiment of caretaker - and she has "used" that to it's full extent and then squeezed even more from me. Part of me want's my "old" self back - to be free of this spell...but how do we let go?

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  33. Hello Haven,
    Just wanted to check in after some months, wish you a Happy Holiday time.
    I've been working with a therapist who specializes in personality disorders for 5 months now. So much of what you write has been validated in my individual and group sessions.
    I'm still with my borderline after 3 years, even though we have crashed and gone over the guardrail many times now.
    We are not married (she has been getting a divorce for 3 years now - he moved out 2 years ago, but still loves her). Such a mess.
    As the non - my work is now focused on understanding what it is within me that keeps me addicted to my borderline. I no longer try to "change" her, make her accountable for her actions. She just can't do it. I enjoy her so much when she is balanced, and "safe". And just take a deep breath and back up when she acts dramatically, or lies to manipulate. Better understanding why she does these things makes it easier to not be reactive and want to break away from her.
    Can you tell me - for you;
    Are you self aware, in the moment when you are acting irrationally, or in a way you would normally not approve? (for my bp - lying, being very selfish)
    Do you rationalize/justify it afterwards?
    Or do you not allow these thoughts in the first place?
    I am trying to understand how my borderline has a different view of these things, and a moral compass set to a different North - and how I can be compassionate to her needs and actions.
    Thank you for your brave posts and thoughts.
    Regards,
    Full Throttle



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    1. "Are you self aware, in the moment when you are acting irrationally, or in a way you would normally not approve? (for my bp - lying, being very selfish)"

      I'm much more self aware now. Before therapy and before I learned to control myself better I had very little self-awareness in the moment. The nature of reactive impulsive behavior is act first, think later.

      Again, in the past I would rationalize/justify my actions and behavior, but it was not from a self-aware point of view. I truly felt that my rationale was legitimate, I wasn't just making it up to make myself feel better.

      There's really no stopping thoughts like that for me. I care a lot of guilt and fear of failure so I ruminate on all the reasons and beat myself up. Usually those rationalizations are our defense mechanism against the shame that takes over when we know we've messed up =( A lot, if not most, justification/rationalization are a subconscious way for us to fight our own internal shame. It's misdirected and a maladaptive way of processing, but it's what we've learned.

      For me I'm very glad I've learned a different way, though it's still a struggle sometimes.

      I hope your holiday is a pleasant one!

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  34. Thanks for your thoughtful answer Haven.
    It is comforting to hear that.
    My borderline does not/ can not "own" anything negative or critical of herself. At least openly to me. No accountability for her damaging actions. Always an excuse, and usually a redirection or blame on me - to end the conversation.
    She must battle with the shame of her actions at times - it must be so difficult. I just want to help. Not sure how.
    At times, she is so miserable (plays the victim card often, to everyone close to her).
    I would like to help her during those times - without shame/blame - direct accountability of how she caused it herself. But then, it would seem to perpetuate an environment where she can continue to "get away" with behaviors that are selfish, and damaging.
    A difficult line to walk.
    Your thoughts?
    Very best of the Holidays to you -
    FT

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  35. Haven,

    How are you? Very interesting blog. I have a question. I dated a woman with BPD 2 years ago. Over the course of the relationship, she told me that I should get over my mom's death of which really hurt me to the core. She even said it in front of the counselor. I finally was able to removed myself from the situation by slowly detaching. What say such a cruel thing about my mom? I was struggling with grief as my mom died from cancer before me met.

    Eric

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  36. Hello Eric,

    I live with (diagnosed) high-functioning autism (formally re: DSM-IV: Aspergers) and believe I suffer many of the BPD symptoms also, and am currently seeking out psychological assessment for a possible co-mormid diagnosis. Your post struck me because just recently, I too have been accused of seeming cruel for telling my husband to get over his nana's recent death. I wonder if your ex had any autistic tendencies also?

    My problem is that I don't necessarily understand to the same degree the emotions that surround certain life events (my autism) and/or I may not agree that certain emotions actually deserve attention in the first place (BPD?); this may be because I feel emotions should be prioritized according to their rationale, and in the aforementioned instance, I felt as though my emotions were more rational (and should have therefore been prioritized) than those related to a person not even alive anymore, and whom had lived her life well.

    I reason that I am autistic in the sense that I don't seem to empathise with the reason for the upset, but also that the upset is disregarded anyway because I feel as though my emotions are often so intense that I think 'well what about me?'. I had a very poor upbringing and feel as though my BPD tendencies relay back onto distressing episodes in my childhood, and that my ASD just meant I couldn't disentangle the reasons for what happened, nor explain them morally even to myself, and this meant my anxieties were exacerbated greatly, leading to a hyper-emotional personality.

    When I told my husband to stop focusing on his nana's death, I meant it to be reassuring and positive, in a kind of 'she is no longer suffering and she lived such a great life too' way. I also felt a little like his emotions were irrational, and too extreme; I felt as though 'yeah, but we all die, and your nana had such a good and long life even towards the end'. These thoughts can be linked to my autism, but I have been questioning lately whether I have something co-morbid to autism, because some of my rationale for my response related to 'my own' feelings, and as though his feelings were burdensome on me, which made me feel resentful, given that I didn't feel as though his upset was deserved of accommodation.

    I am often a slave to my emotions, but cannot understand the nature of them. I cannot understand others' emotions much of the time, so this is such a strange and confusing dichotomy that I find difficult to rationalize.

    Dear Haven,
    May I just take this opportunity to let you know that I read almost all of your comments here and have to say 'well done' for maintaining your argument/the discussion as rigidly as you have done. I couldn't do it, and I feel as though you have been very fair.

    Mel

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  37. Sorry, I meant to add in the context of this particular blog entry, that I am very sexual by myself.

    In the past I have been too, and my dad once told me I was very promiscuous, not that I even knew what he really meant by that at the time. My mother told me he was being insulting, which doesn't surprise me, but I didn't feel insulted even after learning of his intention, but more 'oh good!'. In the past I noticed I could be quite sexually cyclic depending on my needs and emotional stability at a given time. I have been only very sexual with one past partner of whom was very eccentric and emotionally detached (other than sexually); and anybody else was mere casual sex; infact I have no idea why I was having sex, but perhaps that it felt the right thing to do to gain support. Now that I am married, I am only sexual as a means to an end; its what my husband wants, and he never complains, but I prefer to masturbate and am very very good at that. I never climax with my husband. If I ever feel insecure however I have also used sex as a way to feel validated due to abandonment fears etc, and I have used sex to gain myself materials too (re: my interests), and as far as I am aware, it's a win-win situation. My husband is very happy with me. I don't feel intimate with my husband though, even though he might feel intimate with me; I guess it feels stupid to be sexually intimate with somebody I have lived with for 10 years, almost like an act, but it is rewarding to know I did good.

    Mel

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  38. "we will develop a bond. And from there maybe a lasting one. The more partners, the greater the likelihood of this happening. " No way, it just leads to more and more shallow relations, probably with narcissistic disturbed men with the risk of getting a serious disease! If you want something durable, the 1st thing is to get out of the borderline trap, you can behave and feel differently, but you got to learn how! Second things for a normally adjusted man to make love with somebody who does not feel much or any love and is obsessed with many issues and especially control is not even worth a good wank! Unfortunately it takes a long time to understand that, so BPD ladies haven't got any worry to have about finding meat targets :-)

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  39. I am curious where you have read that those with BPD necessarily are more sexual than the general population. Personally, I am in a long term, committed, relationship, and none of the other people I know with BPD are particularly sexual. I wonder if this is a "small sample" problem for both of us or if I am just missing the research that is out there...

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    1. Oh goodness. I've read from countless sources that Borderline is often considered synonymous with promiscuity and sexual-ness.

      Of course this is the stereotype, not all people with BPD are overly sexual. It completely depends on their upbringing.

      That said, of every Borderline I have known personally... we have all be highly, highly sexual.

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  40. Hi! I need help on this! Can I get out of this behaviour!
    I'm at my wits end with this!
    I'm destroying everything good that's going on around me! I have been diagnoised with bpd for a year now but my sexual desires can never be forffilled any man that talks to me I feel like I should sleep with them to be nice?!! And if I don't they won't like me! At the moment I'm
    Very low and if it wasn't for my little girl I would jus leave this life behind! Would love some advise can I break this awfull behaviour or should I just give up now!?

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  41. Part 1

    I met my girlfriend about 18 months ago, had an instant attraction/chemistry which I thought was great. First date on a Friday night and went out again on the Saturday and upon returning home she gave me a full body massage and she wanted me to stay the night which I did and you can guess the rest. The next morning I hear a knock on the door and here the words WTF is he!!!!!!! Needless to say I was scared to death, luckily she convinced this guy I'd just left my car there and got a taxi home.

    She said it was an ex from 4 years ago who wouldn't leave her alone, I suggested she call the police and I left and had no intention of ever returning but got half way back home before realising I'd left my money and cards so I thought it was best to get them straight away. When I got back the police were there and I heard the story again.

    I felt bad for her and thought this isn't her fault so we would meet outside the area about once a week as I didn't feel comfortable and was scared for my safety.
    When we did meet she would always initiate sex and it was just like all the previous posts here, porn movie stuff, into S&M and outfits etc.
    After about 6 months I felt comfortable that this guy had gone away for good following the police involvement so we started seeing each other most days and we moved in together shortly after.

    Life was great, she adored me and was so loving and I was the same for her until one day I went to go on my Facebook account only when I went on the site to login in I couldn't and a man's picture was on the screen, I didn't think anything of this until I realised the man's account was logged in on the computer. It turns out she had his login and password and was going into his account, checking his messages etc - it was crazy! I wanted to leave there and then but had a train to catch for a business trip to London so I couldn't. It was the ex that had come to the house that day, she said she was only going on to make sure we didn't go to any of the same places and it was for my safety!

    When I looked at some picture messages she'd sent me recently I realised the were the same as the ex's Facebook pics, his bike and bag we're in the background. Later that day she text me to say she'd fainted at the dentists (I later found out she'd gone to another ex boyfriends to give him a massage!). After many lies she said she was out cycling with the girls and came across him and she didn't want to appear scared so she let him join them (again this was lies).

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  42. Part 2

    She said the "stalking" had never stopped so she reported it to the police and told them for a court procedure that she'd never text him or called him etc - to cut a long story short about a week later I found out this was untrue. I called the guy and asked him to stop stalking her only to get the response, she's stalking me and won't leave me alone, it transpires she was calling/texting him hundreds of times a month! She also got a key cut to his house and left a tape recorder there!

    She said she had night terrors and he helped her with this, I said so actually he's a good guy and rang him to apologise and learnt everything, they were sleeping together and had even been shopping for engagement rings (been together for 10 years!). She'd even had multiple other relationships, seeing another guy for 3 years and going on holiday for a month with another man. Also found about 50 condoms in her draw when she emptied it.

    I did a lot of reading afterwards to try and get answers and thought I'd come up with dissociation, anyway she's now going to 12 months counselling (she'd been going for years for domestic violence) - she'd claimed how bad all these guys were but it turns out it was the opposite way round from little things, how her ex wanted her to buy him a bike when it turns out she insisted on buying one so she could go cycling with him to her seeing other people. I'd also saw notes where she was doing character assassinations of these guys when the things she was accusing them off were the very things she was doing.

    To round things off she's unfortunately been diagnosed with breast cancer which I do genuinely feel for her on this but this has just compounded the situation, she'd had a successful operation and is 2 weeks out from the op, she called me last night to say someone had banged on the door in the middle of the night and her drain had come out which without sounding awful I don't believe it.

    All of this is just a small sample, she's lied hundreds of times looking back at the texts and things she's told me and to top it all she'll question the slightest thing e.g. I call at my parents for an hour and she'll complain later why she wasn't invited or bring up where I was when I popped to the shops for an hour (but from month's ago), it's unreal.

    I only want to be friends but I feel in an impossible situation, she'll start saying things like people need to know I’m this that and the other which is genuinely not true - knowing what she's said about her other ex's it’s scary!

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  43. Hmm, firstly Haven, thank you for all of the hard work you put into this blog of yours - I stumbled across it when researching BPD, and have found it refreshingly honest and informative compared with all of the cut & pasted medical perspectives!

    Like some of the other people commenting here, I'm a Non who has found himself in close proximity with a few Borderline individuals. My situation is an odd one, though, in that I fall somewhere on the ASEXUAL spectrum, so the repeating pattern in my life is that girls with BPD are intrigued by my LACK of sexual interest in them, and that we get tangled up in complicated, intimate "friendships"! I'm not religious, but it's always felt natural to me that I'd wait until I could give everything to ONE person wholeheartedly, so I've told these contacts of mine that although I can love them as friends, I can't and won't sleep with them (which they idealize as noble, and then devalue as cold and unfeeling).

    I don't know where I'm going with this. I think I'm wanting to ask if you have any advice from your unique perspective, because I worry that my personality type acts as a PERMANENT trigger for people with BPD ... and that we mutually encourage one another's Codependency issues. It's like the friendships are masochistic on both sides, but we really *do* love one another. But, do you think it would be kinder for an Asexual Non to distance himself from someone with BPD who constantly pushes for physical intimacy? Wouldn't that just reinforce their abandonment issues? I'm confused and worried about it, because even on a selfish level, I don't want to lose these friendships ... but I also desperately don’t want to feel like I’m contributing to someone else’s overwhelming inner turmoil.

    Please don't feel obligated to respond, but I'd love to hear if you have any thoughts/experiences in this vein! Thanks again for your time ...

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    1. A practical update to this (with username!) - the answer is probably obvious, come to think of it. My friends with BPD don't see my lack of interest in sex as a permanent trigger, but it's almost certainly something they will cycle between idealizing and devaluing. One minute it's a suspicious, cold-blooded defect, the next it's a time-saving quirk that they can relate to/appreciate.

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  44. Caught my fiancee cheating with whom I refrained from having sex with until our then planned marriage -- we're both Catholics. The other man is a drug dealer & they hosted drug orgies at her house on weekends, without my knowing (though I suspected infidelity, choosing to trust a person out of love was for me but natural & orgies were really way beyond my suspicions).

    Anyway, she was always referring as sex as "relieving myself on her eventually" & saying that I must be fantasizing about her every night. When I told her that sex was for me an extended expression of love & affection, she accused me of being carnal & that I had no right to the sacraments. Out of anger, I told her that I wasn't being carnal with her but that she was the one being carnal with scum. I think it was her way of trying to seduce me into having sex with her contrary to our religious convictions.

    What I mean to say here is that as a likely BP, what has viewing sex a relieving oneself on another person have to do with filling a meaningful gap in human relationships? Or is that the purpose of sex for her -- a relief?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sex is a way to please the person/people we have come to rely on. It is also a way for us to stop the turmoil, albeit temporarily, from rolling around in our heads. When we (I) have sex, I am temporarily freed from the demons that live in my mind.

      My guess (although I am a layperson and by no means an expert) is that your finance relies on this drug dealer for some sort of relief from her pain. She is not cheating to hurt you, she is cheating because it is (or so she believes) paramount in maintaining her version of sanity.

      I never cheated on any of my partners. I have, however, desperately tried to set up my next "savior" - put him in the queue, so to speak - when I've felt like the man I *really* love is on his way out the door. It's self-preservation in its most basic form. I don't expect you to think it makes sense because you do not understand the desperation of someone with BPD. We spend most of our time trying to feel "normal", loved, cared for. If we believe that we are unloved, our minds enter very dark places. We become emotionally self-mutilating. It's a nightmare that we will do almost anything to thwart.

      Delete
  45. Thankful for finding this site. Thank you, Haven.

    I am a woman with BPD and this disorder has been hell for me for as long as I can remember. For those nons that may not understand what it truly feels like to have BPD, the only analogy I can come up with is living in a dream state and asking the people you feel close to pinch you to wake you up. We (I) need other people to define reality for us because we cannot do it ourselves. Speaking for myself, I will be honest by staying I am a skilled actress - I know how I am *supposed* to act in any given situation - but I am merely acting. I am not feeling the role because my reality does not look like yours. I can *make* myself look like I know your reality, but I don't. I spend most of my life in utter confusion.

    I rely on my partner and my friends to tell me what is real. The problem is, I don't always trust them. I feel like they will tell me things that fit into their agendas simply because they think I might believe it and then they can successfully manipulate me. I go back and forth several times a day trying to discern whether or not my partner is truly on my side or if he is manipulating me because he knows he can. It's a scary place to be and it is hell on my boyfriend. I can vacillate back and forth 50 times a day: one minute trusting him with every ounce of my soul and the next minute feeling like he is the devil himself who is playing controlling mind games to get me to do whatever it is he wants me to do. Sex is the easy part; I can do that easily. It's the rest of my life that twists into knots because I never know which path to follow.

    One thing I can say, though, is there are varying degrees of hatefulness with respect to those with BPD. I have known other BPDs who can be truly hateful and cruel. I am not one of them and I think that is because each of us somehow, somewhere, possesses a solid foundation - a real personality that is deeply embedded inside our brain. Some of us are kind people; others of us are not. Our common thread is pure confusion with regard to how we are supposed to respond to each situation, but I believe that is where our commonality ends. Those of us who are kind-hearted diverge from those of us who are not. What's more, I consider myself to be at an extreme disadvantage by being one of the "kind" ones because I am much more likely to be truly manipulated and I know it. Sometimes I wish I could be mean and have no moral code that keeps me in a constant struggle between self-loathing and self-protection.

    I'm rambling, I know. I just wanted to shed a little light on this subject for those nons who might think that this disorder is a "one size fits all" phenomenon because nothing could be further from the truth.

    ReplyDelete
  46. First of all i want to thank kristina for the post she made on how dr khakani helped her in bringing back her lover before christmas. At first when i saw the posting i was so happy and in the other hand so scared,That this might not be real, Then i decided to give it a try in which i contacted dr khakani and told him how my lover left me for another lady for the past 3years and i have been lonely and depressed without him,So i told him if he has helped anyone called kristina and he said yes, that was the lady he helped in bringing back her lover before christmas.i said good and i told him that if he can help me in bringing back my own lover,He laughed and said once i have contacted him that my problem will be solved.He said that my lover will be back to me within 24hours and do an unexpected thing for me. i said really, Truly when the 24hours was completed i got a text from someone saying am sorry then i decided to call the number i saw it was my lover Steve voice.i was so happy he was begging me on phone, That he is ready to do anything that will make me happy in life,So i told him to come over which he did,As he was coming he came with a brand new Car as gift I was so happy and made me had access to his account to prove to me that he is not going to leave me for another lady,Am so happy today and am also thanking kristina for posting this early. Dr khakani you are truly a man of your word. He can also make a barren woman get pregnant and have her own child, he can cure cancer, diabetes or any kind of disease or sickness and solve any kind of problems in this world. Friends you can contact dr khakani on his private khakanibestsolutioncentre12@gmail.com or cell number +2348062216903.

    ReplyDelete
  47. My ex and i had a great relationship. We met while he was separated and almost finalized in divorce.

    My ex was highly sexual. But so am I. But he had
    A list of fantasies and some of them I told him I wasn't game for. As the relationship came to the two year mark he was hell bent on fulfilling some of his list. I complied with one or two things. But it seemed he wasn't satisfied. He got upset with me and he began talking about how would I feel if someone was to try and hit on him for sex and he said Yes. Of course my answer was wth?

    Following this was remarks about him not doing all the things he wanted in life and how I should realize how him sleeping with others would HELP out relationship. Wth? At this point was when I could tell he wanted more sexually or whatever he felt like in filling his desires. I lashed back and asked how he'd feel if someone was to ask ME to ha very sex and I said Yes. He was quiet and then tangents onto a subject completely different.
    WHY is it that what's good for them can't be good for us nons???

    After his divorce got more intense he became distant and suddenly he became hateful towards me. He lashed out and said he was filled with guilt and shame because busy family and friends wouldn't accept me as his gf and he was afraid that they'd judge him. I was mad because it was like he was throwing our relationship away because he didn't wanna take responsibility for his past nor stand up for us even tho he says he still loves me and I'm so important to him.

    Anyway, he broke up with me after three years. I asked for more time together since we only hung out a few hours a week. He got upset and said we shouldn't have gotten so emotionally attached!!!

    WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
    WHY WOULD HE SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

    ReplyDelete
  48. "Why are you so sexual my dear Borderline? That’s a good question isn’t it? One that does not come with a quick answer. This is a first. I’ve found almost no information on why sex seems to be such a prominent feature of Borderline Personality Disorder. What I have found has been only a paragraph or a sentence here or there. So let’s look at what I’ve found, what I feel, and what some of my own theories are."

    Obviously you didn't even look, there are studies, many studies: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3071095/

    ReplyDelete
  49. I read through almost every post and found it all helpful. I am a female non who is struggling to get over a year-long "rabbit hole" with a male BPD. We had sex on our first meeting and continued this way on and off, while he had a GF he claimed he was breaking up with. We stayed in touch during breaks, where I thought we became good friends as well as lovers. The longest break from sex was months, when I didn't see him but we talked. When we got back together at Christmas, I assumed they'd broken up. He met my family. On New Years Eve he announced that he felt he wanted to make things work with his GF, who was calling him a lot on the holidays. He left me cold. A month later we got back together when he said she was finally gone. He said "it's going to be different this time" and that he loved me. In March we were celebrating a week together in a friends apartment when he announced that he was also seeing a "foxy lady" with whom he wanted to "share my sexiness." he said it was her idea when she found out that we were together and he loved me. She wanted to be a part of that love. (this is his side of the story.) Of course no one asked my opinion. I went as far as meeting her but felt wrong about the whole thing and backed out, but not before he said that he loved me unconditionally and that I didn't have to "perform tricks" for him. Of course when I left the scenario, he dumped me. After 2 weeks of NC (and I lost my job) he texts me saying he wants to make everything right. He comes up to where I live (outside but near city) but then tells me that she's coming to meet him there the next day. I flipped out and punches were thrown. I I also forgot to mention that I had since found out she's married, and I know people who know them.i am not a closed minded person bug this all felt a bit perverse and abusive, like maybe they're both BPD (match made in heaven?) anyway, they are still together, she's still married and I'm left trying to pick up the pieces of my heart, feeling like I'm the insane one. It was the "I will love you forever and unconditionally" that I wanted to believe but should have been a red flag. He was never available without another woman who seemed to be "obsessed" with him. This woman really seems to be, even though she saw how awful and abusive he was to me and even played a part in it. I'm a caregiver no doubt about it, but can someone explain this tortuous behavior to me? Even though he doesn't live near me, he brings her to my town to parties, flaunting it. People here know her husband. I don't get it. It feels deliberate but also keeps me in the loop when I'm trying to move on. Any thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Hello Friend i have something to share with you !!! There is an great joy in my heart which i want to share with every one that is privilege to listen to me.My name is Monica, i am from USA.I have a misunderstanding with my Lover few years ago which led to us broken up and he never wanted to hear my voice again because he saw a beautiful love more prettier than my self but as time want on i Met Doctor Zaza a great spell caster (medicine man ),i contacted him through his email and explain every thing to him and then he said that i shouldn't worry that my lover will come back to me on his knees begging for forgiveness. i bought some item which he told me to buy for the preparation of the spell and after every thing was prepared he told me that my lover will come to me with 24 hours begging and my greatest joy now is that he actually came back to me and fell on his knees begging for forgiveness and today we are happy with each other. Do you have any problem with your loved one and you do not know what to do? Well worry no more because Doctor Zaza can provide you with a spell to get he or she back with the help of a spell just as he helped me ok. contact Doctor Zaza today for your spell via email: indiaspellcaster@hotmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  51. Dear Haven,
    I just broke up with a BPD after her suicide attempt. The breakup was painful for me, but I had no doubts what I had to do. At that time I had never heard of BPD. A few days of internet searching her behavior led to BPD.Just now I was searching "porn sex" and BPD, which was how I found your website.I feel your website is the best on the internet on that subject, which I see as partly a power issue ("hook and control" ). She said to me, "I want to make myself irreplaceable in your life," and other things straight off various symptoms lists.
    -one other point: one of your BPD writers mentioned that some BPD are kind, some are not, and that BPD overlays kind/not kind,and that BPD goes more to the BPD's living in a dream, not the kindness issue. This which was helpful to my understanding.
    Thanks again for your website.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Hello i'm a new comer to your post i feel its very insightful as a BPD and hope too strive to improve and most importantly not keep hurting ppl, i'm currently quiet isolated and don't feel ready to face the opposite sex as i do not want to be promiscuous or be tempted, i hope the softly softly approach and and extreme care diligence might help ( fingers crossed).
    I have taken on board many of your bloggers advice and situation it is nice to hear from real ppl and not from the medical profession only althou i feel this is a long process but being in a long term relationship of 15 years something needs tho change.
    thank you all including haven thank you for your blog. kind regards .. kim

    ReplyDelete
  53. I want to share this testimony in fulfillment to my vow to
    the prophet that helped my case. i was happily
    married for 4years and blessed with two children some how i
    got into some troubles with my husband issues that He would
    overlook before He beat me up and left me and the kids
    leaving us with no source of revenue i tried several means to
    get him back yet no positive outcome. After a while i was
    left with no option than to request for a divorce even though
    i loved him like my life. Because he had some connections he
    turned me down until i read an article were a woman gave a
    testimony on similar issue so i contacted the prophet who
    helped me with the case and i won it. I decided to testify so
    that people can also gain from me the way i gained from that
    article i read so here is the prophets email in case you have
    any problem or similar case. prophetjakula@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  54. I want to use this opportunity to thank Lord Odies on this Blog for helping me get my lover back after she left me 8 months ago. I sent friends and brothers to beg her for me but she refused, and said it is all over between the both of us,this word hit my mind and i decided not to relent but to find for means to get her love back,when I meet this Lord Odies in searching for help he told me to relaxed that every thing will be fine and really after 3 days I got my woman back. so thank you so much Lord Odies of the lordoddiesworld@gmail.com for the wonderful help.

    ReplyDelete
  55. I have been with my BPD/Narcissist/Avoidant/Mother Enmeshed boyfriend for almost 3 years now and although I love him more than I've ever loved any human being I'm finding it harder and harder to be with him and be the subject of all his inner demons. I'm not sure but I don't think he has ever made love to me and been truly intimate. He has never said I love you during the act ever and barely kisses me......it's all about the actual act of getting off. He is a compulsive masturbater and also porn addict, in short he is a sex addict and is is constantly fighting off feelings of lust for beautiful women at the same time he has a full hate on for women. He sees his mother as the object of female purity and goodness and me but rages against both of us often. To the world he has a hatred for women and utter disrespect. He is a chauvinist and thinks all women are whores, liars and cannot ever be trusted. The second I do anything wrong I am just like them. He has no idea he has been covertly incested by his mother by being turned into her surrogate husband. For a BPD with this cluster of concurrent disorders his ingredient personality list is utterly damning. I'm just starting to realize that he is deeper inside his illness than can be fully understood.

    As for sex if I don't give him what he wants he believes he can take it because it belongs to him. He tries to make me feel bad if I'm not in the mood but what he doesn't realize is that he is all over the map. In his pattern it is only at the times that he typically masturbates but outside those times I have to be the one to approach him. It is odd for a sex addict but he is literally off and on, hot or cold but never consistent. It is I've noticed for him all about the orgasm/s. I wanted to believe he was making love to me but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced he doesn't have a clue what that is. Can a BPD male really genuinely love and make Love and know what intimacy is?

    ReplyDelete
  56. Hello

    I realised that I may have BPD as well, I do use sex to overcome my emptiness. I feel that I am after cheap thrills in my life, anything that will help me escape my boredom. I felt sex it is!! however its not true that I do not let the person I sleep with get in my mind, I let the person in my mind almost immediately. Every guy I slept with I tried to make it clear to them that I am not looking for a one night stand, they always agree until they get into my pants and then avoid me immediately after. I want to be loyal with the man I sleep with, all I want is a man who'll do me whenever I want him to. I sleep with him, I contact him again within a weeks time to arrange it again, he starts ignoring me thinking I am looking for something more or getting attached. I eventually start believing that too, but the truth is if I get my weekly dose of sex without much drama, I am a happy women.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's because you love sleeping with a-holes, you braindead idiot. Of course they're going to avoid you after sex - you're a crazy BPD nut. You should read about some of the things these 'alpha males' you chase, say about BPD chicks. I should know, I was one of them.

      Fact is, any guy who knows his way around women knows that most females reject a man who genuinely expresses care for a woman. The moment he cares too much, he's finished. In the case of BPD women, it's multiplied by 3000. And this is why you find yourself being pumped and dumped like the whore you are.

      I bet you if ANY of the men who've abandoned you after sex, showed you affection afterward, you'd get bored and go cold on them - probably ending up cheating. This is BPD.

      Delete
    2. " The moment he cares too much, he's finished. In the case of BPD women, it's multiplied by 3000 ".

      The BPD woman i know is interested in me when im NOT interested in her and vice versa.

      She wants me 'onside' so she can reject me as she pleases-she tries to seduce me to the point of erection when she's alone with me then withdraws from the scene leaving me frustrated.

      She's married of course and regularly tells me her husband is utterly useless both inside and outside of the bedroom-but she's STILL with him-she periodically kicks him out but it doesn't last very long because of her extreme abandonment fears.

      She is attractive and has a lot of sexual charisma but is one dangerous bitch. She causes bad feeling anger and violence with and between the men she's been involved with every time...

      I want to give her the final big put-down in no uncertain terms-a few very well chosen words that will stay in her head and f*ck her up completely !

      Because she fully deserves it.

      Delete
  57. Thank you Dr.Eziza you are a life saver you are the reason why i want to live a thousand years on this earth, Because you brought my lover that was the light of my world back to me just within 48hours. I confess to the whole world that you are great and you are capable of bringing back lost love. Contact Dr.Eziza on ezizaoguntemple@gmail.com or call him on +2348058176289

    ReplyDelete
  58. You can rationalize it all you want. But in the end, you're just a bunch of emotionally-damaged, responsibility-ducking whores. That explains both the emotional and sexual aspect.

    Think about it (though I know you all lack the ability to reflect). You're on here, trying to rationalize how much you sleep around and how emotionally ****ed you are. ie: being an emotionally retarded skank.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What a sad sad hater you are...Hate eats away at a person...perhaps we will all be lucky enough for that to happen to you.Look for understanding not blame

      Delete
  59. Respect Haven...for helping others with your Blog.Have you ever read Edward Dantes blog called BPD transformation.Hes a recovered BPD.He worked very hard from 18-28 to help himself.Very enlightening and his blog is an uplifting optimistic haven for those with BPD.It can be overcome.He is proof (and there are others) that those who suffer the pain of this punishing disorder can be helped...and help themselves.Best wishes...keep writing.

    ReplyDelete
  60. I am out here to spread this good news to the entire world on how I got my ex husband back.I was going crazy when my husband left me and my two kids for another woman last month, But when i met a friend that introduced me to drehiaghe the great messenger to the oracle of dr ehiaghe healing home,I narrated my problem to dr ehiaghe about how my ex Husband left me and my two kids and also how i needed to get a job in a very big company.He only said to me that i have come to the right place were i will be getting my heart desire without any side effect.He told me what i need to do,After it was been done,24 hours later,My Ex Husband called me on the phone and was saying sorry for living me and the kids before now and one week after my Husband called me to be pleading for forgiveness,I was called for interview in a very big company here in USA were i needed to work as the managing director..I am so happy and overwhelmed that i have to tell this to the entire world to contact dr ehiaghe on his personal email address and get all your problem solve..No problem is too big for him to solve..Contact him direct on: ehiaghespellhome@gmail.com and your problem will be solve.

    ReplyDelete

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